bible...read it

[jeffkhoo92]

alot of my frens in school talk bout d bible
i find its very unrealistic
about ressurections and powers from a so called 'God' that no one can prove even exists
i feel that christians are following a blind path and leads to no where coz i dont see any truth in the bible
i even see many of my 'christian' friends doing bad stuff like smoking, drinking and playing truant
i dont get it
seriously..

[pfalcon]

Well, for starters, God can be proven to exist.

Over the years, many people have tried to use science and many other things to prove that God does not exist, but though they may seem convincing, their arguments are baseless.

This is because, Science and Math did not exist to contradict God, but rather they were created to AGREE with God.

Well, I'm sure you know what the Law of Cause and Effect is? LCE, for short, says that there cannot be a cause without an effect, i.e. nothing comes from nothing. A ball does not move, if no one moves it. But when someone kicks the ball, it will move in a direction relative to the kicker's force magnitude and force direction, i.e. if he kicks it hard to the left, it flies up to the left.. if he taps it, it just moves for a few secs and stops again.

Zooming in, we know that there cannot be a created without a creator. That is obvious. We cannot have a watch unless someone designs and creates it. Someone had to get all the parts together, assemble them, and voila! A watch! Every physical object has a creator.

Likewise, we ask the question, where did this world come from? Based on the LCE, there can only be 1 answer - Someone, or something created it, and that being is called God.

You take a look at the things around you, you see how gravity pulls things down so that nothing floats, how the Earth is just the right distance from the Sun such that it is not too hold nor too cold for us, and how the Earth's atmosphere has the right balance of gases such that all organisms can live...

Consider how the gravitational acceleration is 9.80665 N/kg, how Pi = 3.141592653589, how the pressure exerted by our bodies is balanced out by the pressure applied on the Earth such that we do not blow up, in which case would happen if we went into space since there's no pressure there..

All these things show a certain order in the way nature operates. Again we ask the question, how can such things be? How did all this wonderful order came about? And we find, there is only 1 explanation - God. Randomnity and chaos can never produce such things! Evolution can never produce such perfect humans such that our system works with a very delicate balance such that if one system fails, it disrupts other functions in the body. We get what we call "sick".

The evidence is clear. There is no other explanation. The question is, are you willing to believe it?

In this world, there is such a thing as the Law of Opposites. We see that we can call a man "tall", because there is such a thing as a "short" man. We can say a door is "open", because there is such a thing as a "closed" door. Likewise, we can say that there are "physical" things, because there is such a thing as "spiritual" things. Getting closer, we see that we can say the bodies we have now are "physical", only because, based on the Law of Opposites, which, need I remind you, is a Law of Nature, along with gravity, cause & effect, among others, only because there is such a thing as a "spiritual" body.

This is what the Bible is dealing with, and this is what we are more concerned about, because, likewise, there is a physical world, there is also a spiritual world. Nature proves it. It is obvious.

Question is, will you accept the truth?
Also, I'd like us to note that, interestingly enough, the Bible starts in Gen 1:1, with the assumption that God exists. That does say something about what we ought to have already known, doesn't it?

As to your accusation that there are many Christians doing bad things, yes, I do not disagree with you. There are such people. But we need to keep in mind that the cake is spoiled not because of the recipe, but because of the baker. In other words, just because there are so-called Christians behaving badly in this world, doesn't mean that Christianity and the Bible is absolutely rubbish. It could be, as well is the case, that these people don't really follow the Bible. That's their choice. God will judge them in the last day. We do not imitate what is evil, but what is good.

Think about it. Any more questions, please feel free to ask. We'll be glad to help!

[jeffkhoo92]

well, ill b frank with u guys,
im an atheist however im soft hearted and willing to hear u guys out
anyway, i wud like to hear the opinions of others besides pfalcon only...

well, i belive that the bible is actually originated from a writer who changed the figures of the universe into events similiar to those in the bible
for example...
the sun makes an annual descent southwards until oct 21 or 22, the winter solstice where it stops for 3 days and then starts to move northwards again. similiar to this, it is believed that the Son of God died for 3 days and is then ressurected on the third day.

next, in some places, the calenders begin in the virgo zodiac therefore, Jesus is born a virgin
others...
-the sun is the light of the world as Jesus is
-the sun rising in the morning depicts Jesus as the saviour of mankind
-the sun cometh in clouds thus is Jesus' name known throughout the world
-the sun wears a corona, as Jesus wore a crown of thorns

also, Jesus helpers, apostles or disciples are as the 12 zodiacs or months
besides that, the sun is the highest at 12 noon thus, Jesus began his Father's work at the age of 12
besides, the sun enters each zodiac at 30 degrees same as the Son of God when he begins his ministry at the age of 30

pfalcon im sure you have an answer ready for me as it is written in the Bible, to have an answer ready for every question
have with you the sword of the spirit and the others to quench the fiery darts that i throw
thx in advance

[Alvin Lee]

Its good to see that you do have knowledge of the Bible.
Well, I might not be 100% correct but I will explain my honest opinions on what you have questioned.

In my opinions, many of these accusations are made without concrete proof and are easily shakeable(by Sean ). If you said that someone(singular, not plural) had written down the Bible, I don't see how it is possible for one person to create such an amazing work of words.
All that knowledge according to my sources are only discovered during the 19th century. Record of history whether Greek, Roman show proof of the occurences in the Bible thus, proving the existance of Jesus and confirming that the Bible's historical facts are indeed true. When the Bible makes a statement, it does not condradict itself. You may say that as Christians, we believe in the Bible and take it for granted that it doesn't contradict it's statements. However, take a closer look and research shows that there is NO condradictions in the Bible.

As you have mentioned the reasons concerning the Bible being a fake, I would conclude that these are mere coincidences. Why would the researchers delve so deeply to find trivial events that have similiar statements found in the Bible?
If what you said below is true, then all other astrological facts would have to be similiar with something in the Bible, not just the ones mentioned.

Sean, I now pass the baton to you. Correct me if necessary .

[pfalcon]

Well, I would, like jeff would put it, like it if others gave it a thought and evaluate claims such as these...

I think we need to look at this in the timeline as to the events of these happening.

Firstly, the life of Jesus as recorded in the Bible can be found in Matt, Mark, Luke and John. Some people call them the "gospel", but I'd prefer not to do so as to mislead people to think that these 4 books is alone the gospel and nothing else.

Now, I cannot say or pinpoint exactly when these first 4 books were written, but I can say that they were all written before 90AD, and Revelation, the last book written, was written by John in 95AD.

Now jeff says that I will have an answer in the Bible, but sometimes in situations like this, we need also use our common sense to evaluate these things.

We know, or maybe not, that the Roman Calendar was introduced by Pope Gregory XIII (if I'm not mistaken, somewhere in the 1300s).

Now I do not claim to be a historian, as I am not, in fact, I hate studying history back in school, and I'm a maths major in university now, but in any case, we would do well to realize 2 things:
1. The first 4 books of the N.T. were written before 100AD.
2. The Roman Calendar was introduced in the 1300s.

The Roman Calendar consists of 12 months, having 7 days in a week, equivalent to 365.25 days in a year. This is the standard calendar used around the world today and has been ever since it was introduced.

So to say that someone changed the figures of the universe into event similar in the Bible is inaccurate.

Logic - How can someone write about events in the Bible before 100AD, based on figures and calendars introduced about 1200 years later?

Even if I am wrong about the year in which the Calendar was introduced, we can see that the name Pope Gregory XIII implies that at the time when the Calendar was introduced, the Catholic Church was already in place, and that came in about 500 years after Jesus walked the face of this Earth, which makes it at least 400 years. So as you can see, it doesn't make sense.

Now concerning the things about the timing, we need to note that during Jesus' time, they were following the Jewish timing system, i.e. sunrise to sundown --> 1 day. But certainly that it not the case today. There is no exact timeline for this, but you can look toward the Bible for such timings. They are described as "in the sixth hour of the day..." and something like that. I cannot exactly pinpoint where, but I can tell you it is in the book of Acts. But trace it back and apply some logic, you can see that they were not using the same timing system as we are today, so they wouldn't know that the sun is highest at 12 noon.

Moving on to the Sun and the zodiac, firstly I would agree with Alvin that it could just be mere coincidences. Secondly, these has nothing to do with the figures of the universe, well, maybe the zodiac would, but not the Sun. And if I'm not mistaken, long long ago, people believed that both the Sun and the Moon gave out its own light, and so the Sun wouldn't have been all that special, save the fact that it gives more light than the Moon and the other stars.

As for the zodiacs, well, Wikipedia claims that astrology was introduced way back in 2000BC, but as to when the 12 zodiac signs we have today was introduced, I do not know.

In any case, it would do us good to remember that there were also 12 tribes in Egypt, which could also be the reason why Jesus picked 12 apostles, we do not know. But 12 is a symbol of governmental perfection, or nations. There were 12 tribes in Israel and 12 apostles. Hence the 144,000 thousand that are going to heaven is not a literal number as the Jehovah's Witnesses believe, but rather 144 = 12x12, i.e. the 12 tribes of Israel and 12 apostles, i.e. God's people. Note that Revelation was written in symbolic representations, so almost nothing is to be taken literally there.

I hope that settles everything, and if not, then sorry on my part, but I seriously do hope that more people would take up the challenge to think and answer.
-Se@n

[Alvin Lee]

Alright, I give up.
In actual fact I am jeffkhoo92
Just wanna see whether you guys out there are ready to take on some easy questions
However Sean, you overkilled.
I can't continue using jeffkhoo92 because I forgot the password..
Anyway, the other should really try and take up the challenge to answer the question.
You never know when people and non-believers will hurl them at you.

[ernshern]

Alvin.. The lies...
been observing this post..
i kinda knew it was liddat...
cuz usually , most malaysian arent atheist.. and i dont think malaysian care really much about all this question
jeffkhoo92 = 16 years of age... how can a non- christian at this age knows so much of christianity .. haha...
but nice one alvin...
stil... The lies......HAHAHa

[willyl]

LOL Alvin. You could have pulled it off it you hadn't signed into your own account 24 mins after the post ><
Anyhow, good questions. I would have tried to reply if I hadn't forgotten my username to begin with. haha.
I like the questions. Just next time, I don't see the actual point in asking as a new user. Just post questions as yourself and we'll all pitch in. Though you may know the answer to certain questions, there may be different ways in answering the question. You'll never know. We learn something new everyday =]

I had someone ask me yesterday, if dinosaurs date back to million of years ago, how is it that the Bible claims the earth to be 6000 years old only. I honestly LOL-ed before answering him. But with that said, how many of you would like to answer? Kinda looking forward to see if there are other ways of answering it =]

wL

[Alvin Lee]

cuz usually , most malaysian arent atheist.

Oh Ern Shern, in my school most of my friends are either skeptics or atheists. But still, whether atheist or not, they are still lost souls who need us to be saved

LOL Alvin. You could have pulled it off it you hadn't signed into your own account 24 mins after the post ><

I did? Man, you're observant..

I find asking as a new person a bit more different from asking as myself. Well, I feel that you guys might pay more attention to my words and find more convincing answers as to influence a person who doesn't believe in the word of God.
Anyway, Sean did an excellent job in answering the question. Seriously, overkill.

heh.

[pfalcon]

Well, Alvin, while most of your friends are skeptics and atheists, most of mine are free-thinkers and buddhists. I wouldn't know how that works since we all know there's nothing free in this world. Even as a thinker, in the end you have to pay the price for it, if you know what I mean...

Just because someone is 16 doesn't mean that he/she will not know much about the Bible.

Pierre de Fermat, a famous mathematician, gained his professorship at 19.
Bobby Fischer, a chess player, issued his challenge for the world title at 14.

Point is, age is no barrier for anything these days (except probably for those with age-restricted categories +.+)...

As for the dinosaurs, I'll leave it for others to answer... Heh.

[david johnson]

'how is it that the Bible claims the earth to be 6000 years old only'

it does not do so. but, if you're convinced it does, i will read the verse that says such if you post it here.

dj

[jacks2028]

I read your post. You are very simple guy. You are also doing good stuff. All are depends on their friend circle. In that case no Christian or not other religion person. Some people do it for show-off but all this things are very bed. So every time stay away from these.